I dont know if this is just my pet peeve but if you have a book. Say you list it as sci fi. But its 70% romance. Then its not sci fi romance, its romance sci fi. I know it sucks, since romance is bloated and over packed but you have to list it where it really goes.
If it has supers but is mostly romance, its romance with supers.
If it has urban fantasy but mostly romance, its romance with supernatural powers.
Again, don't throw your book into alternate tags and with a mis-leading cover. Just in an attempt to bypass the bloated giant that is ROMANCE. Its why YA is in the triangle hell. Its why I wont touch 80% of "Urban Fantasy" because most of it is NEW STYLE DOG PILE Anita Blake waiting to KO my palate with absolute shit storytelling.
I think that's why I also shy away from certain things unless like minded readers say, "Hey, this thing isnt romance in cloaked form, give it a looksee. If I want a bodice ripper, ill be able to find one easy enough. But actual fantastical fiction? Its getting overrun. There's so much out there esp with PARANORMAL romance that its like Anita Blake's retarded cousin on stage.
At least one of my favorite Romance Sci Fi series actually lists its books where it should go and the cover isn't misleading at all, I know exactly what I will get: Here's the series!
Even the reviews point blank will tell you. Mad respect, she sold her series well in a bloated category. That's what you will face with ROMANCE PRIMARY. Its just a fact. Stop throwing your IKEA specials into my space opera or hard sci fi or military sci fi because you decided to sprinkle 20% of your setting into that hole.
Maybe Amazon should make more Romance tags. Because as a reader, I want to be able to pin point what I really want to read easier. I want to be able to bypass the god awful amounts of romance to find specific types of fantasy or sci fi. I wish I had a way to shift all those books out of the way for a session or two so I can find what I want buried under mountains of trash.
I do mean trash in a pretty literal sense. Most IKEA romance books are exactly that to me. They are all about the physical and hardly build up the actual relationship. I am burnt out on that shit. Mightly. Aren't couples, in a healthy relationship, supposed to be each other's willow of a sorts. More then just the physical, they are each other's closest friend. Sticking through thick and thin. Good and bad times. Lots of romance just lives on the overall drama llama and hardly developed these characters. What makes them a good fit besides boning each other into the sun?
I dont mind sensual or even some sexual scenes. But very few can pull it off. With any kind of tact.
I wont personally write stuff like that in my own series. IE its going to be mostly fade to black. If I had to rate what I will have in there romance wise, It would be PG-13. Maybe some on screen kisses and the like but do I really want to explore what they do in the bed room? Not really. Ill leave that up to imagination.
But mad props to people who can put it in and make it remain sensual and bring that couples love for one another to the forefront without it becoming gaudy.
IF I was amazon Id add in these tags:
More Romance Sci Fi tags (space opera, sci fantasy, sci paranormal, ect)
Romance Fantasy
Romance Harem
Romance Reverse Harem
Paranormal Romance with another 10 sub categories (IE Cat People, Wolf People, ect. Theres a metric fuck ton of shifter BS.)
Romance Alpha Whatever
Romance Steampunk
Romance Victorian
Romance Gay
Romance Lesbian
Romance Parody
Romance Military Sci Fi
You get the idea. Its so prevalent I am loosing my fracking mind. Its gotten to the point that if any blurb has this is ROMANCE X with Y Strong Female Protag that I just tune it out. Everyone wants to put some sorta Bella Swan into whatever setting nowadays in the hopes of earning that mithical 1 million + dollar book funtimes. Blarg!
Heck, some of these travesties put their books in stuff like American Studies, Historical Fantasy X, African Fiction Whatever because the field is so over saturated. Its a feat when a new writer can hope to breach 100 copies sold.
I think even the Ebook market will have its reset shortly. There's just so much one and done stuff on there that its bound to happen.
I'm gonna add more to the https://superhero-fiction.com/ page to help. Its interesting that smaller outlets have more varied slots to make sure you find what you are looking for.
The more I look into the genre labels/tags on Amazon, the more I realize its not just my Superheros that are having issues finding readers due to the pull of "PLEASE NOTICE" this book over millions to gain a livable wage on writing vs genuine genre gems getting buried underneath.
I can empathize to a point. I know most want to get 6 figures writing full time. To play bills but on the other end of it: I want to read books, learn how to put stories together so my own series will have a decent enough development, but abusing the algorithm wont help in the long run. What happens when that fad dies down? Will most jump ship to the next "hot" genre?
If I could, I'd love to make additional genre specifications: Actual Tabs, not subcategories.
Main Genre: Lit RPG, subcategories: Sci-Fi, Fantasy, MMO, Base Building, Harem, Reverse Harem.
Main Genre: Harem/Rev. Harem, Subcat: Sci-Fi, Fantasy....ect.
This is not to hurt those types of books but to get them situated in a category unto themselves because its so prevalent. So popular that it tidal waves out other books.
Romance also needs an overhaul. If your primary theme is romance, don't put it in Westerns or Occult or Self Help. Not all Genres are a giant umbrella. Pick a primary and work with that.
When I finally get my books ready to publish, they are going Primary Superhero(SciFi and Fantasy) with the 3rd Genre being Space Opera. Then Ill try to pin point my descriptors to pull in the genre readers.
If your book has the whole Alien Lover angle, then that's Romance. Primary Romance. Please be kind and put that book there instead of mainline sci fi. Its so genre readers can find your books quicker.
I think key words are messing with the searches too. Like if you have a super soldier character, dont list it as superhero. Or as cyberpunk. Unless its a part of an expanded universe that has actual caped crusaders in it. Enhanced doesn't automatically mean it should be placed in certain categories. Look at the actual setting you have.
I'm mainly going about this as a reader. To help other readers and writers understand the frustration of not being able to find a book you truly want to read. The only reason I've been able to find some of the books I want is because of blogs and twitter links to those blogs.
Plus I wanted relief from books that just wanted to preach to very specific topics that I just wanted to escape from. So where does one go for that? Across the Internet, find the writers that want to have fun, then go for broke. Give them the coffee they need to keep going. In general, from the looks of it, most indies have this spirit. Some in trad still do but its not as prevalent as it used to be.
Be the Ball of Fun. Tell the stories of times past. There's a reason stuff like Dune still sells like hotcakes.
If Clawson hadn't been going on about the issues he had with Wheel of Time, then I would have never found his lovely book. Go here to have fun: Pulpy Good Fantasy
IF you are writing in a popular genre like UF or Para Romance or Romance in general, it sucks but you are already fighting in a bigger more popular arena. Purposefully mis-labeling your book to get more views hurts everyone. Even many LIT RPG books do this. Because there's so many of them now, many smaller presses and indies are putting them into stuff like: African Studies in order to get that tag to pop orange or climb the charts.
Not all are doing this but enough are that its making it hard for me and other readers to pinpoint genre favorites.
In fact: https://portal-books.com/ are one of the good ones putting their books into categories that make sense:
Trapped on a derelict space station, Jake must destroy an alien infestation—or he’ll never see his home again.
Still
reeling from the death of his parents, Jake finds a doorway to an
abandoned space station in his grandfather's basement. But when he walks
through, he discovers he's trapped there and he’s got company.
The
stations’ AI enlists Jake to reclaim the systems needed to support life
, but there’s a catch—he has only eight hours to complete the task or
he’ll die alone in the cold vacuum of space. With only his trusty
wrecking bar, work boots, and some basic survival equipment he must
defeat the horrific monsters that infest the station before his air runs
out.
But aliens aren’t all he has to worry about. Hidden in
the station is a message that could spell doom for Earth, and the entire
universe along with it. If you're a fan of crunchy,
sci-fi LitRPG with a healthy dose of base-building, then this space
survival adventure with visceral combat is the book for you.
Many elements here are what's involved in MMOs. So why not have a PROSE MMO genre separation? Many of these books want to bring in a reader most familiar with gaming tropes. Thats alright but don't do it as the expense of other genres and readers. That's all I ask. Its a fairly straightforward plea. The Importance of Book Blurbs
A terminal illness. A dying wish. A secret so vast, it will change
humanity forever. This is a story about how something beautiful begins,
how it ends, and where it picks back up. Isekai style!
From Book 1: From the Wall Street Journal Best Selling Author, Aleron Kong, comes the 1st book in the genre defining series, The Land The series with over 100 THOUSAND ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Reviews! "It's like Rick and Morty were the gods of Game of Thrones!" Audible's Customer Favorite of the Year "Best new series I've read in YEARS!!!" #1 Audiobook 2017 "Better than the Wheel of Time and Firefly!" #1 in Epic Fantasy
What? How? Why? It's def. not my cup of coffee. Whatsoever. It's time to do a dive of sorts. Plus his latest book utilizes the:
To basically rise to the top of, if I had to guess, an under utilized genre arena. Plus based on what I initially see here, was it the audible version that catapulted this series to the top? It would be on a bullseye to assume:
Debates 1 Why is Kong hated? 2,000 pages of useless charts and added fluff is basically his books in a
nutshell. Kong is a cash grabber not a storyteller, I read his first
book and it was awful not a good example of a LitRPG. Awaken Online is
better in my opinion. And the MC of The Land is cringe as hell.
So the basics: Good Audible Narrator
Abusing the KU page turn with empty stat fluff
Does the standard meat and potatoes of Lit RPG but its like McDonalds.
attempted to trademark "LitRPG". SO very much in the vein of the Star Justice guy, Micheal Scott Earle.
Oh boy, yea, even from that thread above, most attribute his initial success to "over feeding" that genre and the audible narrator. Who managed to pull more people in. The way reviews describe this series, I will not touch it whatsoever. From the 5 down to the 1 stars. It's empty calories: the series. But the audible keeps it afloat for some:
To read? No. To listen with Nick Podehl as narrator? Absolutely.
So the series is cringe as all getup but some will give it a pass because the narration is smooth as silk. SO you can dress a pig up in a tux. Note to self, when launching Superhero Space Opera, don't call myself the Queen of Superhero Prose, that sounds just as stupid and silly as this "father" of americana LIT RPG.
Further inspection of other threads about it:
Has elements of Cash Grab, with some idea of marketing to the algorithm, with some grifting and griefing of customers who disagree with him.
He doesnt really use his status to help find other LIT RPG stuff worth people's time.
Using his superfans as attack dogs (That sounds familiar.) LKH syndrome/comic book land debates.
So....you have all this revenue from the audible versions which apparently snake charm people into keeping your series above water and funded....but yet, your like, "No bad reviews pls." Damn. Plus it would appear that he had a pretty nice dayjob as a doctor so whatever he made from book selling was pretty much gravy.
(So why not use your resources to promote things you enjoy Mr. Kong? Just wondering. Genuinely, cause if I was that big in my genre, id be bringing up my favorites all the time.)
Cause with today's society there's so much navel gazing that maybe he's just too wrapped up in just what's in front of him to notice.
But one thing is clear: He knows how to market himself and his books for the greatest effect he can get. Love him, hate him or don't care about him? He still managed to hit on all cylinders to get his books out there.
Since he was making bank, so was amazon, so it ended up supporting him even more. Because you know amazon made a nice little bundle from his audibles and books.(its not a knock, just basic economics guesswork) So the other big things I get from all of this, try to pre-plan your book launches as much as possible, build an audience, strike when the iron is hot, get some basic marketing experience under your belt, plan for success. (even if his ego gets in the way, he did plan for that, from the looks of it). But try to temper all of that with as much good will as you can. Imho. Cause even after my series launches, Ill never stop finding books to bring to the surface. So we can all enjoy.
Edit: I will give him credit, he does use his main site to promote other work he likes. I still think its silly to try to trademark LIT RPG or call yourself X of Genre. That's just my personal input. So he does try to use some of his own coat tails to help others. So that does put a feather in his cap. In my estimation. Either way, he is a pretty busy topic:
Why is it that harem, rev. harem, urban fantasy and the anti-hero, villain PoV dominate Superhero Prose genre/tag on Amazon. Are people much more in love with those aspects then what I grew up with watching Superman: TAS or even Power Rangers.
The only superhero series that I enjoy that is breaking the top 100, filled with all the tropes I wish to see from is:
My main reason for loving Action Figures:
A Run Down of the Whole thing. The tone is generally lighter than a lot of YA books out there now.
While there is drama and conflict, and some later stories deal with
darker issues, I try to keep the series fun, upbeat, and optimistic.
A very simple statement but accurate to what I what nowadays.
As for the Amazon Tag Issue:
Urban Paranormal gets thrown in because Magic Powers
Harems get thrown in because the paint on the surface is Astro City meets Tenchi Muyo, with some of these books. Or the Anita setup of many guys vs one lady.
If fact, if there is a super soldier premise, it gets thrown into the Superhero tag by default, even if its more akin to military sci fi. OR a Ghost in the Shell type.
Cyberpunk books get thrown in because it can enhance the user to a superhero aspect.
Writing to market has flooded the underfed genre tags with things that don't directly reflect that genre. I get wanting to make writing full time. I do but its a double edged sword. We readers have a very hard time finding what we want because its buried under all the competition to get an orange tag.
Some writers do pay for the extra sponsorship to get the extra airtime but its for the wrong genre. This makes it harder to find things you are really looking for. Could it also be mis-tagging on the writer's part? Sure. But its a hurdle nonetheless.
LIT RPG often gets thrown in there because you are taking on a different Identity. Or the game gives you Saints Row 4 level virtual Powers. But to me, Lit RPG should be its own genre onto itself.
What also might contribute, a fair amount of indies don't put the books into a series tab on amazon. Makes it harder to see if you have a sequel.
If it has demi-gods like the Percy Jackson series, it usually gets shoved in also. Even if that world has no traditional in spandex/capes setups.
When it comes to movies, Marvel style does dominate, The Boys type of shows are everywhere. Grim-dark seems to be the top contender. Are people really that enamored of the World going to Shit? We see all that crap on the news because that's what media wants us to latch onto. Get addicted to the drama of "HUMANITY SUCKS!"
Wonder if most of this can be tracked back to patient zero: Watchmen.At least on the superhero side.Things like Game of Thrones probably made grim status more popular then Black Company ever did. Even though I think Black Company is much muuuuuuuuuch better written.
While I was making this entry, I found a whole other series, what else can a writer do in order to pinpoint their reading base and hook them in?
Some of the basics I can think of:
Have a cover relevant to what your book is about. Not just a generic cover.I think that's why so many of these out of genre books are catching people's eyes too.
Don't take forever like GRRM to release books. Pre-write all that you can first. Then release your series in great swaths. So us readers can see you are dedicated to finishing the story before we die. Or you die. That's what's got people worried about Martin I think.
If you are doing writing as a job to get living expenses, try to balance passion with what you are interested in, It shows if you are phoning it in.
You are a specialist with a different genre all together and this series would have been much more interesting without the LIT RPG forced aspects:
Series Bloat:
Mr. Weber and Mr. Anderle are pretty guilty of this. GRRM too. IMHO.
Sometimes less is more. Eventually a story has to reach a natural stop point. By no means does this say, "OH! Don't make side stories." That's what anthologies or side series are for. But sometimes I feel when something hits it big, the temptation to milk it beyond its ability does shine through.
So far, I believe Galaxy's Edge and Aeon 14, have jumped away from this pitfall. Esp since they are open to co-writers to help develop other aspects of that universe. Plus, since people wanted to see where Honor Harrington ended up, the side series books kinda got in the way for a while.
So I've decided with my books, Ill finish the main sequence first then work on side stories. Because the setting I made is pretty robust. In my biased opinion. :P
A fair amount of the Harem stuff seems to have series bloat. Some go on for 7-12 books when they really only need 3-5 or so. Hmmm, what was patient zero for this, my best guess:
This series here:
What ends up making these books more popular? Is the reader base really that big or under fed? To the point that there's a very real over-saturation.
Yea, Harem and Lit RPG really do need their own Overall Encompassing Genre Tag. I guess it hasn't happened because the stuff is everywhere. In Paranormal Romance, Urban Fantasy, Mil Sci fi, Space Opera, Post Apoc, High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, since you can basically make it "MC lost in a video-game and that game can have any of these settings."
Since so much genre blending is happening, maybe it would be better to state what the primary genre is for the book.
What also might play into harem stuff: (My opinion)
Bioware Syndrome. IE: Getting attached to more then one LI for a series. But this also occurs in shows, comics, books, other games.
Who will the Protag choose.
A way to make more drama happen.
Tension between characters is accentuated. Not only with the MC but with the whole cast.
What the reader is ultimately jonesing for.
So this is why he's not on amazon. Trademark wars. Oh boy. It's not like I'm gonna go in and say I own Superhero Space Opera. Its a term to describe the main themes. Jesus. He really went whole hog on his website too, plastering the book covers over everything.
I think Nick Cole and Anspach have a good idea going, to fund stuff while writing in-between seasons. But that requires consideration and knowing your core fan base.
Get started here. Join the Legion today!
So much to learn, I'm glad the silver lining of DMR books gave me the idea to start this blog. Its a good way to Marshall one's thoughts. But back to Superhero Prose for a bit. I guess part of it is the actual established fanbase for these kinds of books.
Most of us are probably:
In our late 20s or older. Most are likely 35+
Already a part of a smaller subset of fans that love comic books but also love books.
Most seem to prefer the grit of old style Marvel over old style DC when it comes to the prose format. So the pie is already sliced thin.
It doesn't help that most of the superhero prose writers only finish one book or two. Then they leave the readers hanging. I love to buy out 4-5 books in a series in one go if I can.
Most of the super hero prose books that hit over 40,000 copies or more have a very dystopic bent to them. Which seems to be the trend. Is there a way to change this trend? To go against the river.
Some only do anthologies. So they never get to have expansive world building.
This is why I try my hardest to unearth what series I can. The algorithm can only do so much.
Guess this kinda showcases while people will love to go see things like the Incredibles it wont nessessarily translate to more comic or book sales. A pity. I want more capes. Just like Honor said, "Let's be about it."
So from the looks of it, the current trend pretty much indicates that most desire the Punisher over Superman. Maybe even if its a little thing, with enough effort maybe Optimism can win out again. Because that's what Superman does. Hope is eternal.
Even if my series only sells say....300 copies, I'd still consider that a success. Because I love superheros and I want to share that with people. I might have to Clark Kent at my regular job for quite a while but I can always say without any hesitation, I am Superman levels of exited about writing this series.
More Links to things I love: (I will always promote New Olympus Saga, always!)
What Indie Series I've been reading on and off since 2010 or so. I cycle back through to see who's released what. I'll put links to these series at the end of the post.
Has an interesting mix. Kinda like Honor Harrington (Early Years) but if she was an engineer rather then an officer.
The world building in this one sucked me in.
As for these, been reading Nuttall since his Empire Corp books. Cant go wrong. I really need to work on my TBR pile of doom. Plus I do love to read b/c it also helps me understand what kind of tropes I gravitate towards.
Oh and just because: The Fall of 76!
If you had told me even 5 years ago that Star Wars and Bethesda would have been KO'd like this, I would have been very skeptical. Now? It's up to us to find better things to play, read and enjoy.
Or why I find myself scrolling past anything that says "Harem" on the cover. It all started with a series called "Anita Blake." It went from a popcorn entertainment level mystery urban fantasy w/ some romance elements to IKEA manual "Please Insert Anita over X body part here" plotlines paranormal Pornmance. It's not even actually erotic. Its a train wreak.
When that character went to Florida in some of the later books, based on the blurb, I kept hoping some Super Gator would have eaten everyone. But what caused everything to sour so much? What drove away the original fan base that supported the first few books? Lots of things.
There's no actual emotion to it. Insert Y. Begin. Please remove M. It's even more flat and comical then that Mass Effect joke of "We'll bang ok?!"
If you want to change what you are writing that drastically, create a new series, or end the one you are doing then go full hog on a different set of characters. It has the hallmark of "Lets subvert expectations." But we all know how that goes.
My personal tastes: Just fade to black in most cases. If I wanted a "Complete and Total" bodice ripper I wouldn't be reading sci fi or fantasy. I'd be going for the Harlequin Romances.
Example: Of tastefully done romance. You write characters like this and Ill be a fan for life.
Because it showcases the characters have genuine chemistry
Caring
Empathy
Not just physical
Once you put something out there, the reader and writer end up as a team of sorts, sure write what you want but do your best to remain true to the books you are writing. If it started off as a Urban Fantasy/Detective type setup, don't change it up midway through the series to Paranormal Erotica. Just my 2 cents that is.
I suppose a good contrast to this would be:
Plus, depending on what you are looking for, she does this very well with other types of couples too.
It's exactly what it says on the tin. She uses the tropes very well. You can have a book with many different genre elements that develop over time. You just have to put it in gradually. Not pull the genre rug from out from under people.
So yes, have your space opera mega romance or military sci fi detective mystery. Just be up front about what your book will contain. Ill be doing that for my series blurb too. Once its finished.
Guess it mostly comes down to personal tastes. I just wish books would list themselves properly in genre categories.
